5 More Andrea Bargnani Myths

Before the season started, I posted a rather controversial and popular post about the Top Ten Myths About Andrea Bargnani. It was the most viewed post ever and still gets a lot of views. Not all that much time later, I promised that I would leave Bargnani alone for a while, that I’ve pretty much said all I want to say and that continuing seemed pointless.

Well, now it’s more than halfway into the season, and everyone else seems to be getting in on the action, so I figured I might as well, too.

Now, despite what many may believe, I am not happy about the recent play of my favourite punching bag. Sure, it’s nice that more and more people are finally, coming to my side of the argument, but the fact is the worse he plays, the more difficult it is to trade him and the less you get back for him.

Before I get to the new myths, let’s take a quick look at the previous ones.

10. Bargnani is a top 10 center

Well, at this point, I don’t know if many would think he’s even a top 20 center, but you definitely have to put Dwight Howard, Andrew Bogut, Tim Duncan, Al Horford, Joakim Noah, Marc Gasol, Al Jefferson and Nene ahead of him. All those players defend, rebound and score efficiently. You could also make a hell of a case for Tyson Chandler and Emeka Okafor, two defensive centers who have huge impacts on their team. Brook Lopez has regressed badly in his third season, yet is still producing at a similar rate as Bargnani, and is much better than him on the defensive end. Roy Hibbert started off the year on fire and has not been able to hit the rim for the last month, but at least his rebounding and defense have been decent enough to make up for it.

9. Bargnani is a good interior defender because he blocks a lot of shots

Well, this year he’s blocking less than one shot a game, good for 49th in the league. Either way, that argument isn’t working, now.

8. Bargnani is a good passer

Bargnani is currently averaging a career high 1.8 assists per game, which is good for 6th among centers. Not bad, except when you consider that he’s 11th among centers in assists per minute. Not bad, not not great, either. Even worse, however, is that he is 49th among centers in assist to turnover ratio. He makes nearly 2 turnovers for every assist he gets. Not good.

7. Bargnani should rebound better without Bosh

Bargnani is averaging at the lowest rate of his career, tied with his first two seasons. He’s rebounding at a much lower rate than the previous two years, when he was also a poor rebounder.

6. Bargnani has improved every year in the NBA

Bargnani is averaging a career high in points and shots per game. He’s improved his offensive game, to be sure, but his rebounding and defense are as bad as they were in his rookie season.

5. Bargnani is a great scorer

He’s currently the second highest scoring center in the league, and 17th overall. Great, right?  Well, you need to take into consideration that he’s taking 18.1 shots per game, which is actually the 8th highest amount in the league. In other words, 9 players score MORE than Bargnani does, yet take fewer shots to do it. Scoring 21 ppg should not be looked down upon, but two of the most difficult things in the NBA, is going from 50 wins to 60 wins, and going from scoring in the low 20s, to the mid-to-high 20s. A lot of players have scored 21 ppg. Very few have scored 25 ppg or more.

4. Bargnani has not been given a chance to shine

He’s the number one option, plays more minutes than anyone on the team and is in the top ten in shots per game. I’d say he’s been given a chance.

3. Bargnani is like Dirk Nowitzki or Pau Gasol

When Dirk or Pau aren’t hitting their shots, they still find a way to help their team. After nearly five years, Bargnani hasn’t figured out how to do that.

2. Bargnani is really a power forward

This season, especially when Reggie was starting, Bargnani played de facto power forward far more than people realize. He defended more power forwards because Reggie wasn’t quick enough to handle them, and the centers would defend Reggie so they didn’t have to chase Bargnani out to the perimeter. And notice where Bargnani plays when the play a zone. He plays on the wing, leaving the middle position for either Amir or Ed Davis. And none of that has helped.

1. I hate Bargnani and am being too hard on him

I think it’s becoming more and more apparent that, while I may be a little more vocal than most, I’m certainly not wrong.

And now the 5 new myths about Bargnani….


I certainly have defended Triano in the past, but one issue I’ve gotten on him for recently is allowing Bargnani to play when he seems to have absolutely no interest in playing defense or rebounding. I am absolutely perplexed why Triano allows Bargnani to play when he is hurting the team so much. My opinion of him has gone down a fair bit with his handling of Bargnani. That said, it’s ultimately up to each individual player to hold themselves accountable to do the things that need to be done. Good players don’t wait for the coach to make them play defense. They know it’s something they need to do in order to win.

The difference between the majority of the players in the league and the ones that end up winning Championships are the Championship players don’t need to be motivated to play the right way.


This is a big one. Bargnani is the team’s best scorer, so how do you replace it if he is traded. It’s true that it’s hard to find 20 ppg scorers in the NBA. The Raptors have had 5 in their history (counting Mike James). Of course, being the leading scorer on one of the worst teams in the league isn’t all that much of an accomplishment. And really, anyone on the team can score. You can share the scoring. You don’t NEED a 20 ppg scorer. You can get a few 15 ppg scorers who will do the same thing.

More importantly, if the defense improves, you don’t NEED to score as much. And really, on a team that might not even win 25 games, does it really matter if you don’t have a top scorer. I’d say there are plenty of other things to worry about.


One thing I have defended about Bargnani is that he is not overpaid. For the production he brings, $8 million, which is what he is making this year, is not out of line.

That said, that doesn’t mean he’s worth keeping. If thinking about whether or not you should keep a player, their contract is THE LAST thing you should look at.

A lot of people have said they’d rather have Bargnani and his contract than LaMarcus Aldridge, who gets paid an average of $3 million more per season that Bargnani does over the course of his contract. I’ve heard the argument that, for the money the Raptors save, you could get another player who rebounds and defends. Well, it doesn’t quite work that way. First of all, it’s difficult to get a decent player for $3 million these days. Secondly, you can only play five players at the same time. LaMarcus not only scores the same amount as Bargnani, but rebounds AND defends much better. You don’t need a player to “make up for” his weaknesses. You can simply find a player that compliments Aldridge, instead of one that will cover for him.

In the end, it’s not how much a player makes, but whether or not he helps your team win.


Many Bargnani defenders claim that we are all simply undervaluing Bargnani and that other teams would LOVE to have him on their team. It’s certainly true that a number of teams would love to have Bargnani, but few of those teams would be contenders and who knows what role he would play on the team.

Teams like Boston and San Antonio have something in common. Take a look at their front line and you won’t find one poor defensive player. Why? Because they know one of the most important things to winning is good interior defense.

Miami certainly wouldn’t put much value in Bargnani’s scoring. Scoring they have. Bosh, a former 23 ppg scorer is only scoring 17 ppg right now because they have plenty of scoring. Bargnani would be the last thing Miami would need.

Oklahoma also has plenty of scoring, and their biggest weakness is interior defense. Bargnani wouldn’t help with that in the least.

The Lakers have struggled at times this season, mostly due to lack of defensive focus. With Kobe, Pau, Odom and Bynum, scoring is the least of their problems. Besides, ask Stacey King how Phil Jackson feels about big men who have trouble focusing on defense and rebounding.

Probably the main reason that Dallas got off to such a hot start was because of Tyson Chandler and the way he anchored their defense. They have Dirk, and they know defense is the way to get to the Finals.

Orlando might very well be the only contender who I can see Bargnani not only playing a big role for, but possibly starting. After the recent trade, it’s clear that Otis Smith thinks that Dwight Howard is good enough to cover for other player’s defensive weaknesses. Otis Smith is wrong, which is why Orlando probably won’t get past the second round of the playoffs.

Which brings me to my last myth…


This seems to be a big mantra. If only the Raptors had a true defensive center, Bargnani’s defensive problems wouldn’t be such a problem. It’s true that surrounding a poor defensive player with good defensive players can hide his weaknesses a little. The problem, though, is that you can always temporarily cover for a player, but eventually those weaknesses get exposed. And in the playoffs, they always do, eventually.

Anyone who watched the recent Raptors-Bucks game should have noticed that the Bucks were focusing their offense at Bargnani, knowing he was the weak link. They either tried to post him up or isolate him in order to drive at him. A good coach will figure out how to isolate the weak defensive player and focus their offense on him. And it’s a lot easier to do against a big man who is weak defensively.

You COULD surround him with great defensive players, but it’s not going to get you very far. More importantly, why would you even try?

Is Bargnani’s scoring really that irreplaceable that you need to go out and build an entire team around him to hide his defensive and rebounding “issues”? He’s not even a very efficient or consistent scorer. There are 22 players in the league right now that score 20 ppg or more.Interestingly, neither Boston, nor San Antonio, nor New Orleans, not Utah, nor Atlanta have a player on the team that scores 20 ppg or more.

20 thoughts on “5 More Andrea Bargnani Myths

  1. Smh @ these myths. It saddens me to see that people actually believe(d) this stuff. I was a Bargnani fan, but I never ever thought that he was that good, Jesus.

    • Sam,



      It’s amazing what people will convince themselves of.


      Wow. You should write your own blog.

      #5: I never said that Triano wasn’t at fault, but to blame Triano for Bargnani’s faults is a little ridiculous. Bargnani is to blame for his faults. I really hate the idea of blaming someone else for someone that the person should have known better about.

      #4: Why not keep your leading scorer? Well, I’d have no problem if that leading scorer wasn’t also a liability on the defensive end. How helpful is it to have Bargnani scoring 20 ppg when he is giving up so much on the other end? Let’s say the Raptors play a team where the opposing center averaged 15 ppg, but against the Raptors he scores 20-25 ppg? In other words, Bargnani’s 21 ppg is actually more like 11-16 ppg when you take into consideration his lack of defense. Bargnani’s trade value is not going to get any better. The more he plays, the more teams realize what a one dimensional player he is. That’s why i wanted him traded last summer, because the more he plays, the more he’s exposed. Holding onto him means the Raptors will get less and less for him.

      #3 Camby has actually been out for the last couple of weeks, and Aldridge has raised his game. And how many rebounds a team grabs is not nearly as important as rebound differential. Teams that play at a higher pace will have more rebounds available.

      #2: I assume you meant that Bargnani wouldN’T start on any contender, but neither would any other Raptors. Well, I firmly believe that Amir could start on several contenders. He’s exactly the type of big man that starts on a lot of Championship teams.

      And Dirk is a defensive stopper when compared to Dirk. And Dirk is also Reggie Evans on the boards when compared to Bargnani. He’s also a much better scorer. Dallas puts up with the fact that Dirk is a mediocre defender because he’s an incredible scorer and half decent rebounder. Still, he’s not a bad defensive player, just not a good one. Bargnani simply isn’t the scorer Dirk is.

      It’s like someone putting up with a girl’s horrible personality because she’s a supermodel. Well, do you still put up with a girl’s horrible personality even when she’s just a Sun Girl (do they still have those?)? To me, the answer is obviously not.

      #1: Actually, it is about covering his weaknesses. Balancing a team means to compliment other players, Bargnani doesn’t need someone to compliment him. He needs someone to cover for him. I’ve said it many times that Dirk is not a bad defender, but he’s not a good one. Chandler is not there to compliment Dirk. He’s there to cover for him.

      And no, I don’t expect him to be the anchor for the defense. I’ve never said that. I’d be happy with decent defense. But he’s still a long way off from that. A guy like Ed Davis will eventually be the anchor to the Raptors defense. Bargnani just needs to hold his own and not be a liability, but even that seems to be out of his reach.

      And if Bargnani has not improved his defense or rebounding in 4.5 years, what makes you think he can become even half decent in either of those areas? What is it about Bargnani that makes you think HE can become a good defender and/or rebounder if only he had the right coach? Why is he so different from the multitude of other players who couldn’t do it?

      And Boston’s rebounding numbers aren’t nearly as bad as they look. They don’t grab a lot of rebounds, but that in part because they shoot such a high percentage, but also because they play at a slower pace. In rebounder differential (which is a MUCH better stat), Boston is 15th in the league, which puts them right in the middle. They give up 0.2 more rebounds than they grab. Obviously with great defense and shooting, that small margin doesn’t matter much. Besides, Bargnani isn’t a good defender, either.

      It seems to me that you want to settle for Bargnani because he likes the city and it’s hard to get players to play in Toronto. Villanueva liked Toronto, too, but I am very glad he was traded away. You don’t decide whether or not to keep a player based on whether he wants to be on the team. You decide based on whether or not he helps you win. And no matter what argument you bring u to defend him, the fact of the matter is that Bargnani hurts the team far more than he helps it.

  2. A good debate Tim, so here’s my take.
    No 5 – Jay Triano is at fault. To say JT is responsible, is somewhat irresponsible. That said, I can’t figure out why Jay hasn’t benched AB more often (especially after a “lazy” moment), nor can I understand why he’s playing Andrea so many minutes (including when we know he’s hurt). Is it the team injury issue, or as some conspiracy theorists suggest – is it a Colangelo “edict”? This one is a tough statement to argue for or against.
    No 4 – Trading your leading scorer isn’t going to help in rebuilding. I’d rather turn this argument around, and suggest why not rebuild with him – but we have a difference of opinion on that. As for having a few 15 ppg Scorers (ala Boston – as I recall a recent example), the Celtics have 2 things going for them … The top Scoring team (FG %), and the top (defensive) team for allowing ppg (91.6 by opposition). Tough act to follow.

    Of the 16 play-off teams (at this point), only 5 teams have no 20 point scorer. Boston, San Antonio, New Orleans, Philadelphia & Charlotte. Boston & New Orleans rank 1-2 in minimizing opponent scoring (aka top Defenses). San Antonio has a + 7.1 ppg over its’ opposition. Philly & Charlotte occupy 7th & 8th in the EAST – and will face either Boston or Miami. Enough said there.

    Point is, Raptors would have to be one of the best defensive teams to off-set <20 point scorers, and I don’t see that happening anytime soon.
    No 3 – Bargnani should be kept because he is worth his contract. To be truthful, I can’t really argue this point, as the CBA is about to descend upon us, and it’s too early to say how it’ll affect our position. If the cap is harder, then I might disagree with you about AB’s contract. If the CBA doesn’t change, then you might have a case. Difficult to say at this time.

    As for Aldridge comparables, he’s playing with Camby – a 11.3 Reb per game guy (in 28.7 min – or a 14.2 Rebounds per 36). And since we’re onto rebounds, Raptors are almost identical to Portland when it comes to rebounds (Toronto 40.6 … Port 40.8 ). How their opponents fair against them (in rebounds allowed) is pretty close as well.
    No 2 – Bargnani would start on most Contenders. No one on this team would start on a Contender. Why do we need to jettison our best Scorer, when the issues are systematic throughout the line-up. We have a lot of areas to correct. Getting a Chandler type Center should not simply mean Andrea has to go. We have to learn from Dallas.

    As for who might want AB – I can also think of Orlando to start. Lakers obviously have Gasol, so they’re established. Given enough time, I’m sure this could be analyzed better, but what’s the point – Andrea’s not going anywhere this season, or next.

    [“Probably the main reason that Dallas got off to such a hot start was because of Tyson Chandler and the way he anchored their defense. ”].

    Dallas has more defensive parts than just Chandler. That’s the big difference when one uses Toronto as a comparable – what with Dirk & Andrea’s games being somewhat similar. We may have issues with Andrea in the paint, but we also have serious issues amongst our other defenders. Some don't even provide much Offense, to help off-set their defensive weakness.
    No 1 – If You Surround Bargnani with the Right People. This is not about covering his weakness, but more about balancing the team. Right now, you expect him to be the anchor for defense (ie. The last line of help), all the while “expecting” a strong Offensive game.

    Name me a player on this team, who does both with top level performance. Actually, name me more than a few, who actually provide one or the other on a consistent basis. Amir is probably the only guy who offers some equilibrium when it comes to Offense & Defense.

    Why would we try? Because we have an asset that maybe is not used properly, but that some of “us” still see more upside. I disagree with you that he has reached his limit. And I disagree that he can’t improve on Defense. It just takes the right mentor / Coach.

    As for improving rebounds, Boston is proof that you can be last in Rebounding, as long as you are tops in Defense & tops in FG%. Despite all this usage BS that gets thrown out, and how Bargnani has “regressed”, these type of stats (like per 36) don’t take into account reality. The more you do something, the harder it gets to maintain your accuracy. Injuries & hurts tend to impact, especially when you continue to play through them.

    Fact is – Andrea is not some saviour for this team. That’s part of the problem. He is replaceable, as is Davis, Demar, Amir, Jose & everyone else. What we forget, is how difficult it is to get players to come here. And by what I see, Andrea seems to like it here. Do you think Demar would stay if the opportunity came for him to leave? That I can’t answer. After Vince, Chris, Camby, McGrady, and many others, it's tough convincing me otherwise.
    We can move Bargs for something temporary (as that replacement will probably move on eventually), or we can alter his bad habits. Personally, I don’t like giving up.

    To me, Surrender has become too Toronto for my liking. I’d be real happy if Raptors tried to change that mentality. Starting with Andrea.

  3. Well thought out points Tim. I’m not going to debate you on any, nor am I going to defend Bargnani. I will say though that it baffles me how Raps fans, yourself included, seem to over emphasize certain aspects of our team (i.e. Bargnani) while ignoring the big picture (our team sucks – we just don’t have the talent level to compete in this league).

    The team is a long way from being competitive and I really disagree that any Raptor would be a starter on a contender. That’s the bottom line. Plus, I’m not overly optimistic about our young talent. DeRozan – starter, but I don’t see him being a difference maker. Davis – solid, perhaps good defense guy – but if he ends up being anything other than your third or forth best player, your team sucks.

    Question – what do you think would be a reasonable return for Bargnani? I do think he is probably valued more by some GM’s than you think.

    • Silverback,

      Thanks for your comment. I’m not sure how I’ve overemphasized certain aspects of the team. I said over and over the team lacks talent. But the team is not built to compete. It’s rebuilding. I’ve also stated that I see only Amir, and possibly Calderon (under the right circumstances), could be a starter on a contender. Because they’re rebuilding, you have to focus on things other than wins and losses. DeRozan’s development has been good this year. Not great, but good. He’s still got a lot of work to do, but I can see him becoming a borderline All-Star if he continues to progress. Ed Davis I’m even more happy about. Obviously I was a big fan of the Raptors drafting him, and while I don’t see him as a future elite player, he’s the type of player you can see winning a Championship one day. He just plays the right way.

      Now, I will fully admit that the Raptors have absolutely no one that looks to have the potential to be an elite talent. If they did then this upcoming draft wouldn’t be so important. It’s disappointing that there’s really only one player who looks like a can’t-miss talent (Kryie Irving) as it means the Raptors have little margin for error, but I’m more hopeful in the long term future of the team than I have been in a long time.

      As for what I think is a reasonable return for Bargnani? Well, a guy like Jeff Green or Stephon Curry (when it was thought he was available) would have been good return. I think for Curry more would have been have to be thrown in, but the Raptors have many pieces to be able to do that. I don’t think he should simply be dumped and I also don’t think trading him before the trade deadline is necessary. His BYC status makes trading him now much ore difficult, and it would ultimately lower his trade value. I still think a lot of mediocre teams love to take chances on guys like Bargnani because they always feel that guys like him just need a change of scenery, or a different system, or whatever. Take a look at how many teams Benoit Benjamin played for. And I’d rather have Bargnani than Benoit.

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  5. Again Tim, nice job on the post.

    I agree on Ed Davis. I’m cautiously optimistic. I like his moxy.

    I’m not opposed to moving Bargnani. I wouldn’t dump him. When you’re team is this bad there should be no untouchables – all trade options need to be explored in the context of re-building, not a quick fix to sneak into the playoffs.

    • Silverback,

      I’m certainly not a proponent of dumping Bargnani. Unfortunately what is happening right now is exactly what I was afraid of and why I wanted Bargnani traded last summer. He’s fatal flaws have been exposed even more and that vaunted potential is not as shiny as it used to be. As I said, I’d wait for summer when he’s not a BYC player, anymore, which should him easier to trade. Hopefully he was regress anymore than he already has.


      Yes, I am the voice in your head. Now I want you to clean out your bank account and send the proceeds to….

  6. Hi, Tim.

    Would you still be against the trade proposal I put forth in the early part of December?


    Bargnani + DeRozan + Weems + Toronto’s 1st Rd Draft Pick this summer

    in exchange for

    Thompson + Casspi + Greene + Whiteside + Sactown’s 1st Round Draft Pick this summer

    From my perspective …

    It’s a shame the Raptors didn’t try harder to pull that one off, at that time, given what’s transpired with each of these two franchises in the interim.

    • khandor,

      I’m still not a fan of the trade. Neither Greene or Whiteside appeal to me whatsoever, and while I wouldn’t mind getting Thompson and Casspi, that’s a bit too high a price.

      Thompson would obviously be a good addition, especially with the dearth of available decent young centers, but while I like Casspi, he plays a position that is probably the easiest to upgrade this summer, with a few good SFs in the draft as well as available as free agents.

      Besides, I thought you didn’t want to make any moves like this until the summer?


      I was certainly not in agreement with Colangelo when he drafted Bargnani, but I’m willing to give Colangelo one more season to see how he reacts to the situation. If he hasn’t traded Bargnani by next season’s trade deadline, I’ll be the first in line to sign the petition to get rid of him.

      Triano has impressed me less and less, lately. I thought far too many people jumped on him for things that had little to do with his job performance, and were judging him based on things that were mostly out of his control, but I’ve had real problems with who he’s decided to go with on the court. Perhaps he’s basically doing what the front office wants, but there are guys he should be focusing on developing that he’s not (Wright) and guys who he is giving minutes to that clearly do not deserve it (Bargnani, Weems). The issue with Weems and Wright is puzzling. Both are free agents this summer, Wright is actually a year younger than Weems, but at least Wright seems to show a willingness to do the little things. I thought Weems might have a chance to be a good guy off the bench, but he REALLY needs to focus on defense if he’s going to do that. It’s certainly not his ability to score that is going to earn him his next contract.

  7. I HATED THAT oaf Bargnani right from the start. No question, he should be dumped somewhere.

    Since it was Brian Colangelo’s bright idea to bring him to Canada, Brian should be fired.

    Jay Triano definitely should go, too. As of today, the team is at 13-37. Since we can’t fire the players, Jay should have been fired already!

  8. Tim,

    IMO, that specific trade would have accomplished four things which are badly needed, if the Raptors are eventually going to be able to challenge for a league championship in the not-too-distant future:

    1. It brings aboard solid young talent with good upside, in the form of Whiteside, Casspi, Thompson and Greene;

    while, simultaneously,

    2. Making the team WORSE this season;

    and, therefore,

    3. Increasing the likelihood of obtaining a Top 3 Selection in the 2011 NBA Draft.

    Even someone like me, who believes the Raptors should really just ‘stand pat’ this season and allow themselves to be as bad as possible … in a concerted effort to improve their fortunes, long term … would have a difficult time looking this particular ‘gift horse’ of a trade in the mouth without pulling the trigger. :-)

  9. sorry …

    4. Ridding the squad of Andrea Bargnani and the ‘culture of losing’ which has permeated the team since he was shifted into the starting line-up, on a permanent basis.

  10. Whiteside is seriously underrated. The guy is so young, and if I’m not wrong lead the NCAA in blocks? Well he had like 4 a game.

    And Greene is 6’11, and can play the 2.

    Thompson has a really nice jumper, and is great on the offensive glass.

    Casspi is a good overall player.

    I like that trade.

  11. Well I agree from Day 1 I never liked Andrea as I didn’t think he was a #1 pick and it has returned to bite them in the ass. Any of the following 4 players would of been a better pick:

    Brandon Roy (when healthy)
    Rudy Gay
    Rajon Rondo
    LeMarcus Aldridge

    But 2006 is over and now we are in the present and are thus stuck with an underacheiver whom is listed as a Center but he can only play on the wing. I would also like the Raptors to dump Andrea but Brian Colangelo won’t do it b/c he can’t admit failure.

    These are the 3 moves the Raptors need to make:

    1) Fire Brian Colangelo
    2) Hire a new GM
    3) Have new GM fire Jay Triano
    4) Trade Andrea (doesn’t matter what order this gets done as he needs to go)

  12. i think we have to give colangelo one more season, read this i posted it on RR today:
    guys i’ve had a change of heart, i’ve always been behind the stance that colangelo has no idea what he is doing, but lets look at what he’s really done:

    1)made a bunch of ticky-tack small ball moves (including drafting) that have got us: bayless, derozan, kleiza, amir, sonny, alabi, wright, ajinca

    2)I think davis is the only one of this group that is above role player, but he was the best talent availible and its more the other teams fault not drafting him than colangelo taking him.

    the facts: NONE of these players will ever be stars, they are all role players (except davis) but still nba caliber players. I’ve always hated the fact that they’ve been marketed as the backbone of this team, but that is my own gullibility and i have no one to blame but myself for having hope.

    His Mistakes:

    Swinging for homeruns:

    1)Hedo Turkoglu *I hope he`s learned his lesson about which players need BALL to be effective

    2)Jermaine Oneal *I like this one, too bad it didn`t work out.

    3)Marion *meh, dont really like this one

    4)Drafting Bargs *IMO one of the biggest fails in franchise history

    Read more: http://raptorsrepublic.com/2011/02/10/how-not-to-defend-dejuan-read-below/#ixzz1DclePvKt

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